Comments on Evangeliku: Why Suffering, Lord?

Somebody said human sufferings is a "bucket of puk...

2009-09-02T23:12:36.818+02:00

Somebody said human sufferings is a "bucket of puke"?

How dare you say that? Have you gone through REAL suffering, my boy? May I tell you that even the most brave soldier on earth cries like a baby when he encounters it.

Without suffering we will not know of how tough you are and what you really are made of, boy!

Joe Mizzi wrote that real faith must be accompanie...

2009-08-26T23:06:28.219+02:00

Joe Mizzi wrote that real faith must be accompanied by love which he declared as true Evangelical doctrine on "faith alone".

The problem with this statement is that Mr. Mizzi "grouped" faith and love as one but clearly it is not the case in the Bible where faith is very different from love and hope.

Colossians 3:14

And now these three remain: Faith, Hope and Love. But the GREATEST of these is LOVE.

1 Corinthians 13:2

"...though I have ALL Faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not Love, I am nothing.”(KJV)

Colossians 3:14

And over all these virtues put on Love, which BINDS them all together in perfect unity.

1 John 4:8
Whoever does not Love does not know God, because God is Love.

If you read the top evangelical commentaries on th...

2009-08-26T22:35:33.812+02:00

If you read the top evangelical commentaries on the Bible verses of Colossians 1:24-25 and 2 Timothy 2:10 you will be treated with circular logic.

One commentary said, "Notice that Paul didn't suffer for himself the way that an ascetic might. Instead he suffered for the sake of the body of Christ." (Of course, you just repeated the verse from the Bible)
"Paul followed in the footsteps of Jesus, and was an others-centered person. Instead, Paul found holiness, spiritual growth, and maturity when he pursued them for others." (that's the secondary aspect of suffering how about the first, which is for the "sake" of others).

Other evangelical commentaries say that Jesus suffered for the Church and now it's our "turn" to bat and hit the baseball so to speak. (Then they stop and insisted that Paul didn't attach any ATONING value to his own suffering).

There is a CLEAR refusal and denial here to discuss as to the "real" POINT of our suffering in relation to Christ Body-Church.

QUESTIONS WHICH ARE LEFT UNANSWERED:

How could one call your suffering (Paul's) for the "SAKE": PROFIT,BENEFIT,GOOD OF OTHERS...if your suffering doesn't have any of those meaning and atoning values to God?

If Jesus suffered for the "sake" of the Church and Paul (or any christian) suffered for the "sake" of the Church too, then how come the latter doesn't carry any weight?

If it's our "turn" to bat the baseball so to speak, how then that our bat suddenly DOESN'T COUNT? Wherein we are just doing the same work/suffering as Christ did for the sake of the Church? Do you follow me?

How does suffering offered for others to profit (sake) of salvation (2 Tim 2:10) if it is just for the purpose of suffering by itself and can not be applied to other christians that make up the Body of Christ?

How could one PROFIT, BENEFIT from suffering of salvation if it doesn't have have an atoning implications?

In the end Catholic Church's teaching makes a perfect sense of it all, in a nutshell:

Christ's suffering is not lacking in anything and is ALL SUFFICIENT however, because of Jesus' LOVE for us He left a room and invited us to PARTICIPATE in His Redemptive work for the "SAKE" of His Church-christians.

Why did Jesus left us a room when His suffering is all-sufficient?

IT IS ONLY LOVE which works both ways- to show His Love for us and our chance to show love for Him and others.

"Anything without Love is dead including your faith."

Wow,is this St. Paul talking about his sufferings ...

2009-08-22T20:40:49.931+02:00

Wow,is this St. Paul talking about his sufferings being offered to God that somehow have a "salvific" implications for christians?

2 Timothy 2:10

"For this reason I endure all things for the SAKE of those who are chosen, so that they also MAY OBTAIN the SALVATION which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory."

I agree this is a big problem to any evanglical who believe our sufferings have no propitiation value to God.

If they only understand how the body of Christ works, where if one part merits all the body merits, if one part suffers all the body feels it too!

Very Catholic. Very Biblical.

By the way this was Apostle Paul (human)speaking o...

2009-08-21T09:00:22.769+02:00

By the way this was Apostle Paul (human)speaking of himself that he addressed to Timothy and fellow christians.

Jae, here's another one: 2 Timothy 2:10 "For thi...

2009-08-21T08:56:40.276+02:00

Jae, here's another one:

2 Timothy 2:10

"For this reason I endure all things for the SAKE of those who are chosen, so that they also MAY OBTAIN the SALVATION which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory."

Clearly. when we offer our sufferings and sacrifices they are both pleasing and have an atonement VALUE to God for the SAKE of His Church which does not violate the "once and for all" Sufferings of Jesus Christ.

This is a thorny point in which any protestant biblical scholar PAST OR PRESENT haven't been able to give a sensible and logical answer.

Blessings!

“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your SAKE, and...

2009-08-19T09:55:22.842+02:00

“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your SAKE, and in my flesh I COMPLETE what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the SAKE of his Body, that is, the Church."(Col 1:24-25).

SAKE: 1.benefit/profit: anything that is advantageous or for the good of a person/s 2. purpose or end.

If the above meaning/definition according to dictionary is true then our sufferings and sacrifices somewhat have an ATONING VALUE to it aside from pleasing to God.

How could one benefit if your suffering doesn't have a value and purpose to the eyes of God?

Wow, clear as a daisy!

This is the problem when we all think about is fee...

2009-08-13T07:39:58.969+02:00

This is the problem when we all think about is feel good ... like Joel Osteen Ministries.

Without the Cross there is no Resurrection!

Nice piece, Mark.

Without the suffering of Jesus Christ you would st...

2009-08-12T06:17:56.029+02:00

Without the suffering of Jesus Christ you would still be a slave of sin and thus condemned.

The Catholic Church is not teaching for the so called "glory" of suffering however, since it is a part of our human existence (nobody can escape its jaws) Jesus put them in GOOD USE for the SAKE of the CHURCH, which YOU are a part of.

So, be grateful to other christians who offer their sacrifices and sufferings to God for your sake.

Besides, Jesus said, "whoever does not carry his own cross, is not worthy of me".(Luke 14:24)

Blessings!

The emphasis on suffering by the Roman Church clea...

2009-08-09T15:25:34.447+02:00

The emphasis on suffering by the Roman Church clearly makes the gospel (the good news) look like a bucket of puke. What wants to be a Christian if all you see is the 'glory' of suffering?

Nice job, Joe. However there is a more beautiful,...

2009-07-12T00:48:31.900+02:00

Nice job, Joe.

However there is a more beautiful, deeper and profound writing which deals with human suffering and pain:

"Salvifici Doloris": The Christian Meaning of Suffering.

Google the title.